Comments for: “Of Death Prayers And Facts: A Response To The Southern Baptists’ ‘Request For Correction’”

Mr. Conn, excellent rebuttal. Good for you for sticking to your position.

As for “[A]ny Baptist, as an individual, may make pronouncements which reflect his or her thoughts,” said Oldham. That would likely only be until they pronouce that women and homosexuals are equal to men. They would surely be excommunicated for such a remark.

Titania, I second your praise for Mr. Conn.

Hall’s e-mail exemplifies the Christian Taliban’s propensity to give attention to irrelevant details in an attempt to gloss over the bigger picture. Mr. Conn’s rebuttal brings this into sharp focus.

Regarding the “death prayer” Drake has invoked, I can only repeat what I said previously about people like this: blinded by their own self-righteousness, they fail to see their own lack of humanity.

“That would likely only be until they pronouce that women and homosexuals are equal to men. They would surely be excommunicated for such a remark.”

A ‘Southern Baptist’ named Jimmy Carter did say those things and was not “excommunicated” (the term would be colloquial here) from the convention or from any church. But then he did ‘excommunicate’ the convention and its churches from himself. So much for that.

This death prayer is nothing but a stupid notion, and this Conn artist bringing it up is an “irrelevant detail in an attempt to gloss over the bigger picture.”

I wonder if the “you reap what you sow” concept applies here, and if so who among the Reichies are dying off.

Hmmmm. Did Wiley Drake kill Jerry Falwell?! Is Billy Graham ill because of his own kind?!
I believe there was another recent death among the theofascistos recently, a Bishop somebody or other. Could this bopomerand effct be what is causing them to drop?

I’m sure they would deny it. But the fact remains, you reap what you sow. So what takes precedence I wonder, the words of Jesus, or the doctrine of Paul?

They might resolve the whole separation issue rather ironically all by themselves!

If I remember correctly, didn’t the jerk actually call for imprecatory prayer against some poor innocent in the world named Jeremy Learing??

Sorry, Joe, that he couldn’t have screwed up your name along with Jeremy’s, but if it’s any reassurance, I’ve been using “imprecatory prayer” against against a certain political leader for 7 yrs, and ain’t nuttin happened yet.(It’s actually been more about a lot of cursing, and wishes for harm, and God had little or no part in any of it!)

Anyway, does anyone know why the SBC hasn’t offered counter prayers for the safety and well-being of one Jeremy LEARING?

The IRS responded by sending Wile E. Coyote a 14 page letter on Feb 7. The Alliance Defense Fund is representing the good Pastor.

http://www.boston.com/news/nat.....dorsement/

If my post comes up, my apologies for the repeat info on the press release about the IRS investigation. The post was intended for another board…I don’t see it here, though?

Excellent rebuttal to Brother Hall, Mr. Conn.

Brother Hall is trying to run as far away from Nutcase Drake as he can. But Drake is tied to him, and Hall is just dragging him along.

This is hysterical!

When I read the press release, the first thing that popped into my head was not an image of a fiery Drake denouncing the evil AU from some pulpit, it was Dana Carvey as “the church lady” purring at her supposedly hellbound talk show guest “I’m gonna say a little prayer against you”.

Rick R - I can see it! Too funny.

I am glad to see you’re still alive, Joseph Conn.

This is precisely why I now call myself a “seriously lapsed Southern Baptist”. These are the type of people who drove me from church years ago. I could cite examples of the church I had been a member of but it would take far to much space. We’ll just leave it as I don’t want to be associated with nutjobs like Drake, Land or any of their ilk.

KathyG, welcome. I hope we see more people like you, people who listen to their conscience, recognize that folks like Drake and company are indeed nutjobs, and have the courage to say so. A recent discussion here mentioned the fact that Jimmy Carter no longer affiliates with the SBC, due to what it’s become. Personally, I’d say you’re in good company.

So the SBC wants AU to clarify some minor points in a press release. However, they refuse to condemn in any way a person who is actively seeking the death of several AU staff members, as well as the suffering of their children.

Didn’t Jesus say something about taking the plank out of your own eye before removing the speck from someone else’s?

“until they pronouce that women and homosexuals are equal to men. They would surely be excommunicated for such a remark.”

A ’southern baptist’ named Jimmy Carter did say those things, and he was not ‘excommunicated’ (the word should be considered colloquial here) by the convention or any church. Then later, it was he who “excommunicated” the convention and its member churches.

And the idea of that “death prayer” is just stupid. But, of course, it’s brought up by this Conn artist to “give attention to irrelevant details in an attempt to gloss over the bigger picture.”

seeing if this will post with a different name

“until they pronouce that women and homosexuals are equal to men. They would surely be excommunicated for such a remark.”

A ’southern baptist’ named Jimmy Carter did say those things, and he was not ‘excommunicated’ (the word should be considered colloquial here) by the convention or any church. Then later, it was he who “excommunicated” the convention and its member churches.

And idea of that “death prayer” is just stupid. But, of course, it’s brought up by this Conn artist to “give attention to irrelevant details in an attempt to gloss over the bigger picture.”

Apparently Dave that takes a back seat to ramming forward a political agenda.

From OC Weekly’s world-famous staff blog, Navel Gazing:
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/nave.....atol/#more

WILEY DRAKE: REVEREND OR AYATOLLAH?
Posted by Alex Brant-Zawadzki in Gimme That OC Religion
February 16, 2008 1:29 PM
Permalink | Comments (0)

Wiley Drake’s First Southern Baptist Church of Buena Park receives tax-exempt status. One of the conditions of this benefit is that no one use church resources to engage in “electioneering”, and yet Drake still used his radio show, run out of the church, and stationary with church letterhead to publicize his endorsement of Mike Huckabee.

So Drake hearts Huckabee. The problem is, Drake clearly doesn’t heart U.S. tax law, and especially not the Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, who drew Drake’s apparent church-resource–aided electioneering to the attention of the IRS. In retaliation for AUSCS’s efforts against Drake, he has once again called on his followers to take action - Imprecatory style. Seems he tried this back in August and those damn AUSCS folk are still breathin’, their wives unwidowed, their children un-fatherless. His call to action back then:

“In light of the recent attack from the enemies of God I ask the children of God to go into action with Imprecatory Prayer,” Drake said in his Tuesday statement. His supporters should recite Psalms 109:1-31 that also includes, “children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.”

Martin Wisckol obtained this clarification from Drake on his most recent round of fatwas: (READ THE REST ON HTTP://BLOGS.OCWEEKLY.COM/NAVELGAZING )

Sad,in a sense, to hear the tales of folks like KathyG, who felt forced to tun away from those who’ve corrupted the faith of others.

Sorry to hear it, Kathy, but my feeling is that when it becomes anything other than an entirely personal experience - it’s a cult,most especially when others actually tell you how it is. I’ve shared many “experiences” with friends - they neither adopted my views, nor condemned them, and my belief system continues on…by no particular label.

I fully recognize, however, that my beliefs don’t create another’s reality. That’s where religion and I part ways.

“For the second time in six months, Buena Park pastor Wiley S. Drake has called on his followers to pray for the demise of leaders of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.”

ACLU is included now.
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/20674/wiley-drake

Is there any way to acquire a copy of his most recent email tirade?

OK - I am thoroughly confused. The link in the most recent AU press release goes to the imprecatory prayer dd 2/14/08, but isn’t that the exact same one he issued 6 mos. ago?

I found the second step in Drake’s imprecatory prayer very interesting in that it is a blatant lie as applied to AU’s IRS complaint:

“HOW TO PRAY…
109:2
For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.

109:3
They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.”

AU reported truthfully to the IRS that Drake used church letterhead and church-sponsored radio to endorse Huckabee. The “cause” is obvious: protecting the First Amendment via the law, which Drake appears to have violated.

I’d be interested in seeing the latest prayer, too. (Alba, the AU link goes to the August version. Check out the date at the top.) Perhaps the new one starts with something like this:

My perceived enemies have spoken truthfully, but I’m a stubborn, spiteful s.o.b. (in Jesus’ name, Amen)…

Fascinating and “fabulous”!

We frequently see the RR fundies complaining about being tagged with labels such as “ignorant” and “country bumpkin”, but they just beg for it in instances like this.

Mr. Hall,quite apparently, has a responsible position with the SBC, but doesn’t know, or chooses to ignore, what is in that organization’s bylaws!

Go to http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/
legal/constitution.asp and search the “ByLaws” section (tab on left side of page) and use “vice” as the w/i doc search word.

I was unable to find where the positions of First and Second Vice President were changed from “elected” to “honorary”; someone please correct me if I am wrong in this statement!

The bylaws also make it abundantly clear that the VP’s are intimately involved in the day to day ops of the SBC. Also check out the rules for succession if anything happens to the Pres. of the org.

Mr. Hall is at least ignorant if not worse; I will leave it to the reader’s imagination as to what else he may be.

Please continue to continue Mr. Conn!

“FABULOUS”!!!

It is rather ironic that so many of the RR claim there is a “war” on them in this country and that people who say “Happy Holidays” seek the downfall of their religion.

And then Drake goes and wishes for the DEATH of his critics and nobody in the SBC actually issues any kind of condemnation.

J, we’ve discussed Jimmy Carter with you before and you abandoned ship with claims that you could not substantiate. (Probably why you ran away.) So for the final time, Jimmy Carter has told the public many times that he withdrew from the SBC for the main reason of seeing a change that went against the principles of the Baptists. It seemed to him that man’s will and direction was taking precedence over that of God. He saw a clear picture of the SBC politicizing the church, and religionizing the govt. As stated previously Jimmy Carter is a firm believer in the separation of church and state. He also is not the only one who left the church for the same reason.

The big picture that you referred to is plain and simple - AU reported Drake for violating tax code, and he responded by demonstrating extremism at its’ finest.

Brad, thanks for the info! Fantastic, indeed!

Alex, thanks for providing that clarification on the most recent death-prayer call by Wiley Drake. It’s the same old Christian Taliban song and dance, now “new and improved”, with an added reference to organized crime.

Is it just coincidence to see a reference to organized crime coming from someone with such a prominent position in organized religion? There’s certainly a correlation in the need for power.