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About 58 days ago
Titania says:
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About 58 days ago
Dave C says:
Coach Daubenmire has taken it upon himself to defend Freshwater’s actions. He was the coach (at the same school) who was sued by the ACLU in 1999 for coercing students to pray.
Here wrote up a loony editorial:
http://www.newswithviews.com/D.....ave112.htmHere are a few highlights:
“We cannot allow the fog to hide the real issue. There are forces at work who want to ban the Bible from public consumption.”
This guy doesn’t even understand what is happening! Is the bible being banned at libraries? Bookstores? The internet? Um, no.
“We have turned the education of our children over to those who hate God and America is paying a heavy price for it.
The God-haters are playing for keeps and they don’t care who they harm.”Gosh, that’s weird. Atheists are only about 1% of the population. 3/4 of the US population identify themselves as Christians. Very few politicians are atheists. In fact, he even admits that the superintendent of the school system, Steve Short, who insisted that the bible be removed, is a *Christian.* Typical conspiracy theory nonsense.
The end is the worst.
“I support those who are fighting against the Day of Silence which is nothing more than a celebration of the homosexual agenda in the same schools where the Bible is not welcome. You see, homosexuality is free speech…Christianity is “religion.”… Let’s turn April 25th into a “Take Your Bible to School” day all across this nation.”
The Day of Silence is a movement dedicated to ending the pervasive bullying and harassment of homosexuals in schools. Evidently, for Daubenmire, being civil to gays is un-Christian.
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About 58 days ago
jax says:
“You’re either for Mr. Freshwater or you’re against Mr. Freshwater,” said parent Beth Murdoch. “There’s no in between.”
If parents are wondering at the behavior of their children, they need look no further than themselves and/or other adults in positions of authority. Hasn’t our president expressed the same exact sentiment regarding the “war against terror”?
“I don’t think people realize the depth of what’s going on between the students,” Murdoch said. “It’s a mob mentality right now. It’s peer pressure. To not wear a t-shirt and to not bring your Bible when they say bring your Bible and wear a T-shirt, you’re asking for trouble.”
The mob mentality that this parent mentioned is one of the more worrisome aspects of this story. Peer pressure is one thing, but an “either/or” mob mentality is dangerous and divisive, as the physical acts of some of these students proves.
I agree with Mr. Boston. None of this would have happened if Freshwater had done the job he was being paid to do and obeyed the law rather than placing his beliefs over the rights of his students. Such disrespect of students’ (and their parents’) rights should not be tolerated.
Dave C, what a pathetic display of hate-mongering, distortions and ignorance from Coach Daubenmire. But I can’t expect more from someone who was as disrespectful of the rights of his students as Freshwater.
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About 58 days ago
Elizabeth D. says:
Dave C.- thanks for the link. Looney indeed! But a typical fundie tirade.
I think Mr. Freshwater should be ashamed of himself for the atmosphere he has created. Middle school is a difficult enough time in a child’s life without having to deal with this sort of controversy. Being forced to take sides in this battle is absurd. It saddens me to see people like this teacher, who are supposed to be setting an example for our children, behaving in this manner. The attitude of this teacher, and this coach, is horrifying. It seems they are making every effort to turn this school into a battleground. How far will they take this? Will it have to come to a physical confrontation between students before someone puts and end to this idiocy? Why isn’t the administration doing something about this? I hope this comes to a swift end, and that no child is harmed anymore than they already have been.
Bullying in the name of Jesus! What are these people teaching their children, and how on earth do they justify it? -
If it were an assembly that discouraged all bullying, I’d be all for it.
Btw, I don’t care what the cause is, I think silence is silly. So they ignore a direct question from a teacher during class? I’d be thinking detention for that. Even if the teacher happily participated, what learning is going on in Spanish class with everyone silent? Sounds like a Day of Stupidity to me.
And where does it end? Tuesday is Day of Silence for Separation of Church and State? Wednesday is Day of Silence Against Child Abuse? Then there’s the Week of Silence for Racial Equality? We’ll have a lot of quiet kids and not a lot of learning going on. Just as useless as, if not more useless as, an hour of Donahue.
Meanwhile, kids graduate without being able to add 3+4, write a complete sentence, or point to the U.S. on a map. But they were silent once a year!!! Woo hoo!!!
Rant over.
Matt #1
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If Freshwater used an electronic device to burn a cross in a student’s arm, as is alleged, then his action was physically abusive, and is a crime, and should be criminally prosecuted. This goes way beyond any church/state violations, bad as those are.
It is very bad when one has to fear bringing a complaint about egregious criminal behavior.
Maybe Freshwater is the Antichrist, burning the mark of the beast in his students.
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About 58 days ago
Alan says:
I wonder if Freshwater, et. al., and the brownshirt goons who “support” him by shoving the other kids around call themselves Evangelicals? No wonder the “Evangelical Manifesto” group is worried about their reputation.
Maybe they should give their co-religionists a call and give them a tutorial on their vision of a “civil public square”. These goons need enlightenment.
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About 58 days ago
RE: I dont care what the cause is, I think silence is silly.
How about turning the National Day of Prayer into a Day of Silence? Big improvement!
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About 58 days ago
Lowell says:
Freshwater should be given an ultimatum: call off the Christian student goon squads, or be immediately fired. This vile harrassment must not be allowed to stand.
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About 58 days ago
Albatross says:
The demise of adequate education has little to do with a day of silence, Matt.
Rant over.
Mr. Freshwater should indeed be ashamed of himself. This is an outrage, and he owes the school, the student body, and the community an apology. The administration does need to step up; they’re already late.
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About 58 days ago
Uh-oh. God is very angry with Texas:
Giant Sinkhole Swallows Trucks; Earth Opens Up in Texas Town
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About 58 days ago
plum grenville says:
The Day of Silence didn’t call for total silence - you were still supposed to respond if a teacher asked you a question.
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About 58 days ago
Bettyanne says:
Also from Ohio— Prior to recent schoolboard elections, one candidate stated he had no objections to the chorus singing christian songs at the annual “Christmas Concert”. He felt that any student who did not want to participate could simply “opt out”. Imagine the embarrassment of a student, whose only wish is to fit in, when the chorus stops singing long enough for him to leave the room. This is the same school that has the tradition of ending graduation ceremonies with the singing of the Doxology.
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About 57 days ago
bud says:
“MikeH” says:
If Freshwater used an electronic device to burn a cross in a student’s arm, as is alleged, then his action was physically abusive, and is a crime, and should be criminally prosecuted. This goes way beyond any church/state violations, bad as those are”i’m with mike on this; i’m still wondering how in hades this moron is still a free man. never mind being allowed continued access to children spewing his hate mungering garbage, inciting division and violence among children in what is supposed to be a public institution for secular education? i’d really like to know? mike? anyone??
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About 57 days ago
Bud, reports from the frontlines of these disputes can be fragmentary and skewed, so you always have to be careful about assumptions as to what is going on.
The last I heard the school was permiting Freshwater to teach while its investigation into his conduct proceeds. Until the investigation finishes, there is a monitor assigned to his class to make sure his behavior stays within guidlines.
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plum grenville wrote: The Day of Silence didn’t call for total silence
The DOS web site says: “While some students choose to be silent for the day, some participants are simply silent for part of the day…”
Thus, there are two options: “for the day” and “part of the day.” “For the day” must therefore mean ALL day. If one speaks at all during the day (e.g., to answer a teacher’s question), then one has moved from the “for the day” category to the “part of the day” category.
Hence, we must conclude that total silence all day is indeed one of the options encouraged by DOS.
Matt #1
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About 57 days ago
The whole day of silence thing may or may not be a good idea, but, to be honest, when I heard about it, I thought it was a bit puzzling.
I don’t mean the cause, or the idea of high school students participating (can’t say “speaking out”). It just seems less than straight forward or a little too “conceptual”.
I’d go with a t-shirt that has one of those “equal signs” (=) on it. That would be very easy to understand, it would not be disruptive or disobedient, and it would be a form of “speaking out” rather than “calming up.”
Just my opinon.
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About 57 days ago
Haven’t we told gays to be silent all along? “Don’t ask, don’t tell?” That is what the protest is about. It is a peaceful protest that will probably cease when homosexuals are treated equally in society. There is nothing disruptive about it, though perhaps combined with the t-shirts with the = sign on it might make it more effective. All-in-all, this form of protest is perfectly mild and harmless.
Maybe they should chain themselves to church doors?
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About 56 days ago
Just to clarify, I don’t have anything against it - I just find it puzzling. If they find value in it, and it isn’t any more disruptive than any other ligitimate excersise of free speach, then it ain’t none of my business.
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Don’t ask, don’t tell? Umm, that’s the military, not public schools.
Like I said, where does it end? Are racial minorities picked on? Are fat people? Are ugly people? Jews? Atheists? People who wear unconventional clothes? Geeks? Etc etc. Are we going to have 58 days of silence throughout the school year? Besides, what makes them so special? Are all the other people who are picked on not deserving of their own day?
There is nothing disruptive about it
Please. That doesn’t even merit a response. But I can’t resist, so, other than pointing out the obvious disruptions of students refusing to speak during classtime, please see one example of serious disruption at
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ce25e.htmlMatt #1
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Main point from the article:
Almost one-third of students didn’t attend classes.
Personally, I’d rather have students attend class and learn about math, English, science, etc.
Matt #1
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About 56 days ago
Matt, in response to your link, I think it’s sad that so many people in this town, and fundies in general feel that tolerance equals acceptance/approval/endorsement, and that this will qualify them for a spot in hell. Fear is a great motivator.
My daughter’s school participated in the day of silence. There was no disruption of the school day, instruction went on as usual. The people in this town who kept their students home on the day of silence did so out of fear. A bad decision, because it never hurts anyone to learn about diversity, and to learn that people who are different are still just people. People with the same struggles, emotions, needs and wants as anyone else. Just because you don’t approve of someone’s lifestyle doesn’t mean they should be treated like a pariah. Funny though, the fundies are always the first ones to yell persecution, and the last ones to show compassion to those with whom they disagree. -
About 55 days ago
daniel rotter says:
Matt: “Personally, I’d rather have students attend class and learn about Math, English, science, etc”.
Given that you (Matt) wrote that sentence in an anti-Day-of-Silence context, I’m confused about it. Are you saying that the Day of Silence prevents students from attending class and learning about Math, English, science, etc? That is not the case at all.
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About 55 days ago
There are several issues that the DOS seems to have become entangled. I would like to try to straighten them out.
First, strategy and tactics for an organization that is trying to call attention to an issue. Is “not speaking” effective at getting the message across. Or is it puzzling and ineffective. This is a rather trivial issue.
Second, disruption of the primary purpose of the public schools, to teach. Free speech is almost intrinsically disruptive, at least if it is going to be effective. In a school setting, there is legitimate concern about the disruption, but also a limited right to speak out. If the disruption is directly caused by the speaker, for instance standing up in the middle of class and haranguing the teacher and students, it is pretty clear this is not allowed. If the disruption is incidental, for instance, parents keeping their kids home to avoid the DOS, it is not necessarily a legitimate reason to prevent the free speech activity.
As a citizen, one could maintain that the cause that is being promoted is not worth the disruption, and that the instigators are not showing common sense. That would be a legitimate point to make, but since we are dealing with the right to free speech, the participants aren’t required by law to be bound by someone else’s common sense. But the point can be made, and it may have some effect on the public standing of the organization.
Third, is the issue of what values are to be taught in the public schools and in what dosage? This is probably the actual core of this discussion, the other two being surrogates.
One position is to take a minimalistic approach, teaching the most common and wide-spread values of direct interest to the community as a polity and in homeopathic dosages. For instance, teaching good citizenship, tolerance for our differences, everyone is equal before the law, these are your rights, etc. Under this umbrella, tolerance towards gay and lesbian boys and girls could be included, just as racial tolerance would probably be included.
The problem (or virtue, depending on your point of view) with this approach is that it is close to being completely ineffective. The good news is that it isn’t going to be too controversial or take away much from other lesions.
Another approach is the use of the public schools as an agency for social change. Since the schools are (and in my opinion, are supposed to be) foundational in forming the “democratic character” of our citizens, why not select an issue on which we fail as a completely ideal democracy and actively promote the democratic solution to that issue? Especially if there are kids who are actually being negatively affected in the school itself? In this case, a relevant and really meaningful lesson in democratic values results and society becomes a better place for us all.
The problem with this approach is that you have to select the values and the issues and someone is going to feel that you are imposing your values on others. There is a very good chance that this will create divisions, confrontation and conflict in the community and will cause at least some disruption in the school. On the other hand, it may be worth it.
There are other approaches, such as teaching both sides of the issue, or letting the issues from outside the school come into it by allowing limited free speech, which is in and of itself valuable as a lesson in democratic process.
While I don’t know if my summery would be acceptable to all, it seems like AU supporters have a variety of opinions about this particular issue and we may have to agree to disagree on it.
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About 54 days ago
“Alan says:
Bud, reports from the frontlines of these disputes can be fragmentary and skewed, so you always have to be careful about assumptions as to what is going on.
The last I heard the school was permiting Freshwater to teach while its investigation into his conduct proceeds. Until the investigation finishes, there is a monitor assigned to his class to make sure his behavior stays within guidlines”agreed alan; is there an update on that investigation? still gotta say though that unless everything else i’ve read on this thing is bogas, the man is at the very least, guilty of inciting distention, and very probably violence among children in a public school.
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At the Mt. Vernon school board meeting tonight (Monday, May 12) a number of people spoke during the public comment period, all but three of us supporting Freshwater. Most were from his fundamentalist church congregation. Several were pretty hard-core Christian Nation advocates, one of who explicitly stated that he didn’t believe in church/state separation. We heard quotations from the book of Mathew and from Christopher Columbus (of all people!) We also heard that the Constitution is full of God. An MP3 of the public comment period is here (28 megs): http://tinyurl.com/56mlqo (you have to go through a few contortions on that free file storage site to get it as a free download, but it’s painless).
The Board President said he expected the investigation being conducted by an outside agency to be finished by the end of May, and the Board will then decide on what action they think appropriate.
I read some of the evolution worksheets Freshwater has used in class, and he’s flat out lying to his students. A parent brought them to the meeting, and spoke against Freshwater. That issue will be raised as appropriate — it hasn’t yet entered the public discourse here with any salience.
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About 53 days ago
RBH - thank you! Please keep us updated.
Christopher Columbus??!! Jesus H…
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About 53 days ago
“Albatross says:
RBH - thank you! Please keep us updated“.ditto rbh; i tried the mp3 thing but couldn’t get it. so please do keep us informed??
alba; you know if au is involved here and what it’s doing? it’s getting kinda scary when someone like huckabee with his flat out promise of changing our constitution to suit his superstition can not only run for president but actually get as far as he did.
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Bud, I corresponded with AU when this started, and they’re watching. So far the school board is doing it right — gathering information, hiring an outside investigator. Push has not yet come to shove. It will when the investigator’s report is finished and we see what’s in it.
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About 53 days ago
RBH - Thanks for the updates, please keep them coming. If the investigation is expected to last until the end of May that pretty much is the rest of the school year. Is that just a coincidence or will the investigation take that long?
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Elizabeth, knowing the president of the school board, I might doubt just a little that it’s purely coincidental, though the investigation just got started about two weeks ago and there are something like 8 allegations to look into. So I actually think the end of May is pushing it, and it may be a bit longer.
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About 53 days ago
Elizabeth, personal experience has taught me that sometimes matters like this can take a long, long time - even for lesser matters. I’d rather see it take longer, and be handled appropriately, than rushed to a poor decision and outcome. It will take patience and vigilance.
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About 53 days ago
Albatross, you are right. I don’t want this to be rushed to a poor decision. I just hope this is resolved before next years contracts are signed, and that Mr. Freshwater is not offered a contract for next year.
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These are the allegations that have been made in the recent past:
1. Burning a cross shape into a students arm with an electrostatic device.
2. Refusing to remove a Bible from his desk.
3. Keeping eight to nine Bibles in his classroom.
4. Displaying posters with Bible verses on cabinet doors in his class.
5. Displaying the Ten Commandments in his classroom.
6. Leading a healing session during a Fellowship of Christian Athletes meeting.
7. Disseminating religious materials to students.
8. Contradicting science with his Bible references.
9. Skirting the administration’s request to stop disseminating such materials.
So it’ll take a while.
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About 53 days ago
RBH, thanks, I was going to ask for the list of allegations. Whew! That’s quite a list. I’m really surprised he has gotten away with this for as long as he (apparently) has. Until recently has no one complained about his actions or has is finally gotten to the point where the administration could not longer ignore the complaints?
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About 53 days ago
My understanding is that when asked to remove the Bible verse posters, Ten Commandments posters, and the other Bibles (besides the one on his desk), he complied.
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Albatross, that’s correct.
Elizabeth, this situation has been festering for a long time. Five years ago Freshwater tried to get intelligent design creationist material officially incorporated into the science curriculum in the school district. After some contentious school board meetings, that move was rejected by both the district curriculum committee and by the board of education.
However, apparently Freshwater then expanded his teaching of that crap, with the administration tacitly staying out of the way. Understand that roughly 35% of the teachers in this district are graduates of a local Nazarene College, most if not all school administrators are themselves more or less conservative Christians, we have a district headquarters of the 7th Day Adventists in the county seat, and for some time had a small seminary for Church of the Four-Square Gospel preachers. This is not Berkeley.
So the general policy appears to have been ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ with respect to what was going on in Freshwater’s classroom.
This recent brouhaha arose when that one set of courageous parents complained about the injury to their child. Freshwater immediately allied himself with David Daubenmire, a former coach in the district and Christian Nation loon (see this rant), and between them they way over-reached, organizing rallies on the public square in the county seat and stirring up the kids in the school.
My reading of the local web boards and comments I hear around town is that in doing so they have managed to alienate all but the hard core of their supporters. For example, the first rally a few weeks ago drew hundreds of people; the most recent, last night an hour before the school board meeting, drew around 35 (I watched it). That’s corroborated by the distribution of speakers last night: All those supporting him except one were from his Assemblies of God congregation.
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About 53 days ago
RBH, thanks for the additional info. I grew up having the crap of one of the churches your mentioned shoved down my throat. By personal experience I know them to be some of the most intolerant, pompous, abrasive people on the planet.
Attendance at his rallies dropping from a few hundred to less than 3 dozen is quite revealing. Perhaps the locals are wising up to his antics?
Good luck, keep fighting, keep us informed. This man should not be teaching in a public school. -
About 53 days ago
Keith, on another page, complained of employment discrimination due to his having taught at a Christian school. I feel sorry for Keith, because I think teachers should be judged on their teaching ability, not their religious background.
Apparently, the militant antics of “conservative fundamentalists” like Freshwater are having an affect on school administrators making hiring decisions. The are probably thinking “risk reduction.” Not to mention the general reputation of Evangelicals. I guess this is what the “Evangelical Manifesto” meant by “sub-Christian” behavior.
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About 53 days ago
RBH, you are doing a really brave and excellent thing. It’s not easy to stand up to such organized opposition, especially in your home town. Bravo!
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About 53 days ago
wonderin says:
Yes, RBH you are doing an excellent thing.
I am sure the family appreciates it. -
About 52 days ago
RBH; let me add my encouragement to you here. considering the psychopathic antics of which some of these fanatics are capable, you are indeed a courageous person.
i still have questions you list the nine allegations and end with “it may take a while”.
since the first allegation is as mike pointed out, a definite criminal act, wouldn’t it make sense for an objective investigation to address that issue and put it to rest, one way or the other “before” allowing him back into a public school class room?? well, a rhetorical question as this has apparently not happened. just wondering if you have any info. as to why it has not?? anything on what the kid’s parents are saying?, doing?
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The parents have made no statement since their lawyer issued a statement on April 22.
According to newspaper reports, the school administration very belatedly contacted Children’s Services about the burn allegation, but the latter decided that no action was warranted on the basis of what appears to have been a single informal conversation with a school administrator.
It’s still very unclear just what happened in that incident.
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About 51 days ago
MnM says:
Freshwater’s biggest mistake was allowing Daubenmire to get involved. In ‘98 Daub was sued by the ACLU for evangelizing at the London, Ohio high school where he coached. The suit was settled out of court (favoring the ACLU) but Daub went on to sue the folks who had turned him in to the ACLU. He lost that libel suit, sued again on appeal and lost again. Google “Daubbenmire vs. Sommers” for details.
During the several years that this was going on the community was deeply divided. Eventually London, Ohio recovered but because of this, Daub’s reputation in Central Ohio SUCKS. He is seen as a rabble-rousing, troublemaking, attention-seeking, religious nut who can be counted on to show up wherever there’s a news camera rolling and gullible people to put coins in his basket. His one-man ministry limps along unable to even pay its bills.
Does Freshwater want to end up like this? An Panhandler for Jesus with no health benefits, minimal retirement and no savings? Freshwater, ask Daub how much money he owes on his “ministry debt” (credit cards, home equity loan) before you follow the same path.
Oh, and one more thing. Google “sexual offender’s registry Zachary Daubnemire”.
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About 51 days ago
Correction: Should be Google “Daubenmire vs. Sommers” (only one “b” in Daubenmire)
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I’ve learned that the middle school administration and teachers clamped down hard on the Christians’ bullying and intimidation, and that it has eased considerably.
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About 49 days ago
RBH, thanks so much for the update! “Christians’ bullying and intimidation” Wow! Share God’s love!
Good to hear that the administration is finally doing something about this sad, sad situation.
Please keep the updates coming. Is there a local newspaper we could check for current articles on this situation? -
About 48 days ago
Alan says:
Just as a reminder, we have to remember that the “bad apples” in a group are not to be taken as representative of the group as a whole. While they may think of themselves as Christian, and may even have reason to do so, these brown-shirts antics not what best exemplifies Christianity. And since they are kids, probably being manipulated by “outside agitators”, a certain amount of forgiveness is probably due.
I know that the contributers here don’t really mean to over-generalize, and I don’t feel comfortable being preachy, I just add this comment because there actually are people who will read the blog and get the impression that our intent is to denigrate Christians and Christianity as a whole.
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Apropos of Alan’s remarks just above, a fair number of moderate Christians in the community are realizing that they are being tarred by association with the extremists, and are beginning to push back. I’ve been talking with several about that, encouraging them to be more visible when the extremists are claiming to speak for all Christians.
Five years ago when this issue was first raised here a number of moderate Christians spoke up and it was very helpful. So Alan is right: One can’t tar all Christians with the extremist brush.
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About 48 days ago
However there are a LOT of people on the Mount Vernon town square today in support of Freshwater. I would guess 200. There is a stage and tent there also. Where are these people coming from??
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About 47 days ago
Here is timely example of moderate Christians pushing back:
Thursday May 15, 2008 IDAHO PRESS TRIBUNE
Local human rights and faith leaders have squared off against incoming speakers for Friday and Saturday’s Shake the Nation conference, with arguments and letters from both sides revolving around tolerance and acceptance.
The conference, which will feature presidential candidate Alan Keyes, has been called by fellow speaker Dave Daubenmire, “a call for Christians to represent their culture, to stand up against the moral decay that is flooding the nation.”
Daubenmire, a former high school football coach from Ohio, has been sued by the ACLU in a case involving religious activities at school. He will be joined by William Federer, author of “America’s God and Country Encyclopedia of Quotations” and Scott Lively, co-author of “The Pink Swastika: Homosexuals and the Nazi Party.” The event is hosted by Minutemen United and America Asleep kNOw More, addressing the “homosexual agenda” and the role of Christianity in U.S. government.
Reverend Edwin Keener, president of the board of Interfaith Alliance of Idaho, and Tom Newton, leader of the Canyon Area Human Rights Task Force, said in a letter to church board members at Caldwell’s First Baptist, that the event will result in “hard feelings.”
“We ask that as church leaders you reconsider and withdraw your offer to allow this very divisive group to use the First Baptist Church as a place in which to spread it[s] message of hate and disregard for the laws of America,” the final sentence of the letter read.
Wednesday, Newton told the Idaho Press-Tribune that he thought “the conference is going to create animosity, its going to bring some animosity and hatred into the community … against homosexuals, and I think some of the speakers encourage people to break the law.”
He continued that he saw the conference as having a “political agenda” that “is more suited for a public park than a place of worship.”
Daubenmire, of Pass the Salt Ministries and calling from Minneapolis, Minn. on his way to Boise, denied any such accusation, saying the conference will be “anything but political.” Daubenmire responded to the Interfaith Alliance and Human Rights Task Force with his own letter, saying he would expect better of “people of faith.”
“He doesn’t have an idea what this conference is about and he falls into the same trap he accuses others of,” Daubenmire said. Organizer of the event Tom Munds said all of the accusations about speakers at the conference by the alliance were wrong. He says he believes that “the Bible is very clear that we are an immoral people and our base is crumbling” in America.
“Christians are being targeted against their free speech, and we won’t stand down,” Munds said. He also called the letter by the Interfaith Alliance “slanderous” and lauded the response by Daubenmire.
“We would expect a higher standard from those who seem to be so concerned about tolerance, diversity, bigotry and prejudice. It should not be tolerated from anyone in the religious community,” the end of Daubenmire’s letter read.
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About 47 days ago
The “Evangelical Manifesto” characterized these brown-shirt antics as being “sub-Christian”. Even “Conservative Evangelicals” are getting fed up with the these militant fundimentalists.
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About 47 days ago
It still baffles me that so many people who claim to worship a god of love are busy spewing hatred toward one group or another every chance they get. Apparently their god’s love only applies to those who share their narrow beliefs.
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About 29 days ago
Dan Bittinger says:
I completely agree that this is splitting up
the whole learning atmosphere,I know Mr.Freshwater.And in part don’t see him ever burning a cross on someone. I was born and raised here in this town and yes we need to get back to teaching our kids religion does not belong in schools. Our country is falling
apart and i know that the students can see it as well,school is a neutral place and a safe haven for our children so please lets keep it that way. -
“If Freshwater had done what he is legally required to do – keep his religious views to himself – none of this would have happened.”
Incorrect. There is no case law whatsoever barring a teacher from expressing religious views.The reason he went beyond allowable has nothing to do with the law and solely to do with the school board’s instructions not to introduce creationism in the classroom. But the school board was too vague and should have given him written instructions, then written warnings, befor efirign him. They didn’t. That’s incompetent personnel management. He’d been there 21 years and both board and teacher should have been able to handle things with less conflict.
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About 12 days ago
RBH says:
An update: At a special meeting on Friday, June 20, the board of education passed a resolution initiating termination proceedings against Mr. Freshwater.
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About 12 days ago
I should add that contra “Atheist,” the board gave specific and explicit and public instructions to Mr. Freshwater concerning not teaching creationism in 2003, and those instructions were repeated by administrators on more than one occasion. He knew it and disregarded it.
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I should add a detail about the law.
The board cannot legally require creationism in class but can permit it. So maybe the easier way out is to tolerate the guy’s creationism within limits.
If I had a kid in his class, I’d just teach my kid all the reaons why creationism is myth and why evolution is good science - then have my kid politely introduce that in class. It’s a great example for kids of how to argue properly and how to get involved and how to get excited about textbook stuff.
I’d even use it to take my kid to “Inherit the Wind” or other play or film on Scopes - get the kid sinterested in history, in Darrow and Bryan, in the example that the “good guy” in the trial lost, etc. Use it as a teaching device, to teach more history and science.
Why is everybody so petrified of the creationists? Argue it out, don’t suppress it. Usually, open sunlight and arguing it out works better than suppression, where things fester.
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About 8 days ago
Atheist
Did you read the full report?
I hope you aren’t going to say he was “allowed” to burn the childs arm.
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Children have a hard enough time just trying to be themselves. They get harassed for not wearing the “right” clothes or for having the “wrong” hairstyle. The school day is hard enough with the bad attitudes many kids bring to school–attitudes they learned at home. Religion in school only adds to the trauma and drama. I believe it is fear on the part of many harassers that cause them to behave in this manner. They are fearful that someone else is strong enough to be their self. They are fearful they will be alone if they do not conform. Religion is only one of many ways to conform. But who wants a lukewarm convert anyway? Perhaps the answer is that any convert gives them the sense that they are right–safety in numbers.